Removing prereq talents (Source Re: Again with the arrows thing, please take)
Designing as a player typically means trying to change the game's design
in ways that make your character more powerful. "Hmm. I have to get
talent X in order to get talent Y. But I don't want to get talent X,
because then I couldn't get these other talents I want. Therefore,
Blizzard should change the talent tree so I can get Y without X." I
would say something like 95% of the posts in the role forums are from
players wishing their character was more powerful, or other players
arguing against those sentiments. I wasn't saying anything about whether
designers or players are better people. Just consider your forum
suggestions as to whether they would benefit the entire game or if
you're really just making them to better your dude.
Players wanting to remove the prereqs is almost always because they want
the bottom thing but don't want to also have to get the top thing. In
essence, the talent tree design is cramping their style and not letting
them just cherry pick whatever talents they want. But that isn't the
intent of talent trees. The intent is that you make some choices, and
sometimes that means having to spend extra points to get a talent you
[...] You can take the cynical point of view that every time a player
complains about a talent prereq then the prereq is actually
accomplishing something. If they don't complain about it, it's probably
because it isn't really affecting their decision -- perhaps they would
have gotten both talents anyway.
Yes, sometimes talent A is needed for B (because B affects A), but to be
honest, we face the same issue when we want to talent an ability that
you get at higher level, and what we do in that case is just bundle the
talent with something else. It isn't strictly necessary to link the two
with a prereq arrow in those cases.
Some of you are sounding defensive, but it wasn't my intention to insult
anyone here. I was just trying to challenge you to think about *why*
those arrows are there. They aren't random or arbitrary. If they are
forcing you to think about things differently, then they are doing their
Volley removed from the game (Source Re: Volley ?)
It's gone. We want to make Multi-Shot the spell hunters use for AE.
Channeling a spell that makes arrows fall out of the sky doesn't feel
like a hunter ability and doesn't even really match the name of the
Only class with a minimal range and now without volley only class without an aoe /shakes head
You realize "only class" claims are viewed as a success by the developers. The classes are too similar as it is.
Most seem to think they simply removed it & that we will be using multishot instead.
Yep. Volley was edging out Mult-Shot, even though we think the latter is
the more interesting ability. Volley felt too much like a magic spell
and not something a hunter was doing with her bow or gun.
Holy Paladin Talents (Source Re: Holy Paladin Build 12803 Concerns)
We do think the Holy paladin tree has a few too many mainstream (meaning
as apposed to situational) healing-focused talents. The next build or
so should have a tree with more freedom.
Eye for an Eye (Source Re: Ret: Primary Problems with Build 12803)
Eye for an Eye will only reflect direct damage spells, not dots. [...]
We want the talent (Eye for an Eye) to be situational or at least
subjective and not a no-brainer. As an active ability, every paladin
would feel compelled to take it, which then gives you fewer points to
Optional Talents (Source Re: Ret: Primary Problems with Build 12803)
Talents like Eye for an Eye, Selfless Healer and Acts of Sacrifice are
designed to be choices. No half-decent paladin is going to skip over a
major talent like Sanctified Wrath. But we are trying to design the
trees so not every talent is Sanctified Wrath. If part of what attracted
you to the paladin class was being able to occasionally throw out a
heal to save your friends in a 5-player dungeon, then Selfless Healer
might be attractive. If you like having lots of utility in PvP, then
Acts of Sacrifice might be a better choice.
It's okay -- intended even -- that some of you would skip over these
talents. It's only a problem if everyone does so. We imagine a cookie
cutter Ret build would tell you to absolutely take Sanctified Wrath and
Zealotry, but to spend a few points where you want.
Templar's Verdict with one Holy Power (Source Re: Ret: Primary Problems with Build 12803)
This would be a pretty big dps loss under most circumstances. A 3 charge
Templar's Verdict hits so much stronger than a 1 charge, that it's not
worth it using Templar's Verdict to fill holes.
Holy Power generation and skills rotation (Source Re: [paladin] Exorcism and Art of War)
It seems to me you are saying there are these abilities that sometimes
grant you a charge of Holy Power, but that in order to get Holy Power as
fast as possible you need to get lucky several times, so therefore the
abilities should just always give you Holy Power.
The rotation is designed around 3 Crusader Strikes. Sometimes it takes
fewer than that and you get to use Templar's Verdict sooner. You're not
balanced around a maximum efficiency that is dependent on the stars
randomly aligning. You're balanced around average efficiency that
corresponds to the averages generated by the appropriate random numbers.
I think there is some tension between Exorcism potentially generating
Holy Power such that you're not sure what to do when you have 3 charges
-- use the Templar's Verdict and potentially waste the Exorcism Holy
Power, or use the Exorcism and delay the next Templar's Verdict -- but
that seems like an isolated problem (and perhaps not even a major one)
and not a reason to make Holy Power generation more consistent.
Consistency is what we're trying to downplay in the Ret rotation because
it doesn't allow great players to outperform merely good ones.
Using every GCD (Source Re: Ret: Primary Problems with Build 12803)
This specific feedback is a tricky thing to handle because a lot of Ret
paladins are used to mashing buttons every GCD, and any time they aren't
in that state they are going to feel a lack of "rhythm" (as you put
it). Yet if you look at rogues and Feral druids, they can't hit a button
every GCD because they don't always have the energy to do so.
We don't want classes / specs to use every GCD. We don't think that's
good for the game, as I've mentioned before. (Casters do their waiting
while casting rather than in between abilities.) The trick is to fill
"enough" holes with something. For some players, especially some Ret
players, that "enough" is going to feel weird for them unless it means
every single hole. That's not what we're going for though. Wasting every
other GCD is too extreme and isn't what we're going for either.
Words of Glory (Source Re: Ret: Primary Problems with Build 12803)
I usually reget getting into the "what is my role supposed to be?"
discussions because players then feel like they're supposed to use that
as a constitution to interpret whether their class is performing
correctly or not. Let us worry about that. If Word of Glory is so weak
that you'd never consider using it, then that's good feedback. If it
needs to heal for 50K before you'd ever consider using it, then that's
good feedback too (because it either means we're barking up the wrong
tree, or you personally aren't the correct audience for that talent).
The fact that you have talents that affect a heal should be ample
evidence that we want you to situationally cast it. The fact that you
have only a couple of talents (and one really aimed at Holy
sub-speccing) should suggest that we want to keep it situational.
Hammer of Wrath (Source Re: Ret: Primary Problems with Build 12803)
Hammer of Wrath hits too hard to be a rotational ability. We'd have to
make the proc really rare or nerf the Hammer of Wrath damage. You might
notice we dropped Execute from the Arms warrior rotation for the same
reason -- it actually neutered Execute rather than making it a fun
Retribution mana usage (Source Re: Ret: Primary Problems with Build 12803)
Ret is designed to be able to hit basic abilities with enough mana. You
don't have infinite mana. You'll find that casting heals other than WoG
will be really difficult and Consecrate is probably not going to happen
unless you situationally find yourself with a lot of mana. In that
environment, being able to do something other than dps might be
attractive. I think it gets way overplayed on the forums, but it's often
nice to offer something other than "I bring damage!" to a group,
because everyone brings damage.
Seals (Source Re: Ret: Primary Problems with Build 12803)
We're going to add a little bit of damage to Justice just because there
are several talents that improve Seals in the trees and we don't want
those to be completely unattractive to a PvP Retribution paladin. I
think it's far too early however to be able to place judgement [sic]
calls on whether damage or the movement limitation of Justice is the
obvious choice. You can't do much damage if you can't get to melee and
typically autoattack-based damage isn't nearly as valuable in PvP.
Restorative Totems (Source Re: Restoration Shaman Concerns)
Restorative Totems isn't long for the world. It's a poster child for the
kind of talent we're trying to prune. We just haven't finalized a
suitable replacement yet.
Telluric Currents (Source Re: Restoration Shaman Concerns)
We want Telluric Currents to be optional. It won't be an effective way
to restore your mana, but it might make you feel less guilty about
throwing out a Lightning Bolt in a world where mana is more precious.